Teach in Thailand

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Generation what? (views: 4327)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
eigoman

My sense is that more and more mature teachers ARE entering the TEFL field and that more and more schools are not only hiring them but actively seeking them. Another factor over and above those entering the field now are those who choose not to leave it. Growing old in TEFL is, in my opinion, a relatively new phenonenon and one that surely must be impacting the average age of the average EFL teacher abroad. ....

PlanetESL Anyone? (views: 4411)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Henry

I was asked recently about this outfit. Does anyone know anything about them? Good, bad or ugly? www.planetesl.com ....

The unbearable whiteness of TEFL? (views: 4790)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
cyberphi

Here is a true story from ELT in China: I met a Canadian woman in Shanghai whose first language is English, she has a uni degree and a B-pass CELTA. She doesn’t speak much Mandarin (her motivation to go to China was to learn it). She's 22. And she applied for a job as an EFL teacher in China (a market where unqualified native speaker "teachers" can and do find work easily) ... and she didn’t get the job. And the guy who got it was a non-nativ....

Re: The unbearable whiteness of TEFL? (views: 4929)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by Adamusville

As a senior manager in the TEFL industry, based in the Asia pacific region, and with control over recruitment policies for very large numbers of teachers, I feel that I can see this argument from both sides quite clearly. In fact I'd go a lot further than that - I've clearly put in place policies that clearly excluded anyone who didn't suffer from a complete (and possibly unbearable) whiteness of being at times...and at other times (more recently....

Re: The unbearable whiteness of TEFL? (views: 4312)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

Thank you Adam for such an open and frank posting about your experiences with recruitment practices in ELT – I for one welcome and appreciate your honesty. I agree with your view that we are in the business of education and for me in most instances that is the bottom-line… business… so I appreciate that your initial decision making regarding recruitment practices appears to be based firmly on sound market analysis… after all… consumer/s....

Re: The unbearable whiteness of TEFL? (views: 4444)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by cyberphi

Peter, Adam, The litigation question is interesting. I trained EFL teachers in Australia for an organization that sends teachers to Asia. In fact, it guarantees jobs in Vietnam / China / Indonesia / Thailand for sucessful grads of the course. But 'Asian faces', and other non-Anglos (even if 100% Aussie culturally/linguistically) were hard to place in the (locally owned) schools, because the school owners didn't usually want them (and they could t....

Re: The unbearable whiteness of TEFL? (views: 4351)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by GoTeacher

"Aren't training centres also slightly to blame if they don't warn potential teachers (who may spend $2000 on a course) that they might not get a job b/c of the colour of their skin?" I think so. Teacher training courses should be accountable to their trainees in two primary ways: 1) teaching ability and; 2) employability. Training them to teach is only half the equation. Training organizations need to be up front about employment realities on a ....

Yeah, but (views: 5025)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

People are not refused employment on basis of skin colour alone – where to draw the line? In years gone by I have been denied employment on the grounds that I refused to cut my hair or shave my beard – I have had friends who have been refused promotional opportunities due to weight issues and then of course ageism and sexism in employment are still rife the world over – in all sectors discrimination exists in one form or another. Is it the ....

Re: The unbearable whiteness of TEFL? (views: 4330)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

I've heard that is common in China, though I've never been. Here in Mexico, there is an element of blonde-blue eyed preference in hiring, but non-native speakers outnumber native speakers by a long, long way. Qualifications matter more. ....

Interesting (views: 4498)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

I haven’t taught in Asia but of all the years I have been involved in European ELT I can honestly say I can count the number of non-white teachers I have met on one hand – and those were here in the UK. Is it racism? Undeniably to some extent but I think there is more to it than that. Rheno, you have repeatedly made comments about native speakers being a walking billboard for the schools they work in. I think, cynically, that this also plays ....

Truth wins out ... once again. (views: 4342)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
The Arrogant One

ACH DU LIEBER! For so many years, I’ve been up at dawn, finished with my grooming and breakfast by 7am, and on the nation’s packed highways heading toward one nefarious TEFL operation or another. Am I wealthy? No way, Jose! Have I been basically content with my career activity? Likewise negative. Has having been a TEFL instructor contributed to the overall stability of my marital life? Gimme a break! I know … I know … I should have quit l....

To Ellis: Keep on teachin', brother (views: 4653)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by Neil Young and Crazy Rheno

There’re mangy dogs on the street Black, white, and some blue Students shufflin' their feet Some wearin’ someone else’s shoes There’re flashing signs up on the wall ahead It seems a sly game for just my head Feel like a fool, and I am to them So I try to forget it, any way I can. Keep on teachin' in the third world, Keep on teachin' in the third world, Keep on teachin' in the third world, Keep on teachin' in the third world. I see a white....

Re: To Ellis: Keep on teachin', brother (views: 4255)

Online (Online) - Wed, 22 Feb 2006
Posted by The Arrogant One

Dear Rheno747, Crazy Rheno, Neil Young, and all other disciples of reason, Thanks so much for your warm welcome to this site and, most of all, for your epic poetry on behalf of stick-to-itiveness in the face of the scourge about us better known as TEFL. Please permit me to immediately dispel any notion that I am little more than “another board whiner” stuck in an activity I should have abandoned ages ago. Granted, I’ve had other options in ....

You're in L.A. I might see you soon (views: 4195)

Online (Online) - Thu, 23 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Hey, A.O. You live in L.A? That's cool. I may have to look you up when I get back that way. That's looking like it's gonna be pretty soon. I'd like to pull a stint in SK, but...... Have you any ELS job leads in L.A.? I'd fly the hell outta here tomorrow if the job's good. Take it easy, A.O. Rheno ....

Re: You're in L.A. I might see you soon (views: 4470)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Feb 2006
Posted by The Arrogant One

Rheno, Babe! If you're a-plannin' to come out this-a-way (to LAsville), then we gotta get it togther. BANK ON IT, m'man! As for the job situation... well... please contact me at my E-Mail address (above), and I'll go into that issue with you in greater depth. OK? Whatever the case, count on my assisting you as best as I can in your endeavor. Your buddy, The Arrogant One (Ellis E. Seamone) ....

Aight. Let's do it up. (views: 4240)

Online (Online) - Sat, 25 Feb 2006
Posted by Neil Young and Crazy Rheno

Yeah, let's meet up, Mr. Seamone. I'll email you details of my plans soon. Thaksin has just dissolved the Thai Parliament and has called for new elections. This means the Baht is probably going to take a dump in the coming days and weeks. If so, I'll be on a plane outta here soon. Nothing like taking a 20% pay cut in one month! ....

You and I.... (views: 4121)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

I'll say again: You and I sound like we share exactly the same outlook, A.O. No surprise there. I've always liked your moniker. Yeap, one must be at least a little 'arrogant' to get the truth across in this business. Welcome to the site, btw. ....

Confessions of an ex-EFL teacher: Husband humbled by one-day experience teaching English in Mexico ....

My colleagues and I have come to the same conclusion here in Thailand (views: 4625)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

My colleagues and I have come to the same conclusion here in Thailand: a successful teacher here is one who can keep his students happy. It doesn't matter if those students are really learning anything. If a teacher's students are happy, the teacher is as good as gold. If they are bored and/or unhappy, the teacher is an incompetent quack who should be shown the door as soon as possible. How did this bullshit mentality get started, anyway? Welcome....

The Guy C. stamp of approval (views: 4079)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
eigoman

As a training provider, Guy, which web sites do you recommend to your program's participants post-course for job searching, lesson planning and anything else to do with getting and doing their first EFL teaching job? ....

Re: The Guy C. stamp of approval (views: 4241)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

"As a training provider, Guy, which web sites do you recommend to your program's participants post-course for job searching, lesson planning and anything else to do with getting and doing their first EFL teaching job?" Our program is region specific in our job placement program. Most people coming through my classroom do so because we have something set up for them in Latin America already. For those who want to go farther afield, Guy C recommend....

My hypothesis was right...... (views: 4221)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Hey, Guy. Rheno here. Hey, listen, I don't want to reopen old wounds, but I just wanted you to reread an old post of mine. I'm sure you remember it well: "I have a hypothesis, Guy. It explains why you work so hard to damage the credibility of guys like me who come to websites like this and tell the truth that is the TEFL sham. I base my hunch on you being a recruiter/agent/trainer, like your website buddy Peter. I bet, and it's a bet I think I ca....

Re: My hypothesis was right...... (views: 4395)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

Rheno mate – please… Guy and I have never hidden what we do for a living - I try to make a point of not mentioning the company I work with unless directly asked what I do. Guy goes one step further and posts with his email ID – anyone who wants can see for themselves his *vested interest* - it’s not hidden. I and I imagine the other regulars to this site visit for one reason and one reason alone - to discuss industry related issues with f....

Hey, Peter (views: 4810)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Hey, Peter. I want to tell you I enjoy your posts. We have a lot of ideas in common. About my own posts, though. Bear with me, if you would please. You see, I love the truth. I can't help it. Blame it on Thomas Jefferson, founder of my old uni, the University of Virginia. "....seek out the truth, no matter where it leads." What's really cool about speaking the truth is one gets to see who really believes in freedom of speech. Freedom of speech me....

Re: Hey, Peter (views: 4410)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

I do see where you are coming from Rheno and in theory at least support you views on freedom of speech – I also tend to agree with Jefferson’s view of seeking the truth… no matter where it leads. But seeking the truth and speaking the truth are two different things for me – with freedom of speech comes responsibility of speech – just because I know the truth doesn’t mean I have to speak it… and if I do then I must take responsibilit....

Re: My hypothesis was right...... (views: 4381)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Yes, I am a TEFL trainer. That is well known by most of the people who regularly post here and elsewhere, where I use my real name and hide nothing. What you call defedning my webturf, I call writing about my experiences and offering help to people who ask questions. Your experiences and my experiences in TEFL are vastly different. I certainly don't go out of my way to damage the credibility of those who call TEFL a sham - but I will go out of my....

Any experience with educ. ministries in Cz Rep, Bulgaria, or Poland (views: 4023)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Carol

I've discovered that the Education Ministries in the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, and Poland places certified high school teachers to teach English in secondary schools and universities throughout their countries. As a certified high school teacher, adjunct professor of English, and CELTA-A graduate, I'm interested in pursuing this option. Does anyone have any experience with these programs? Thanks!! ....

Re: Any experience with educ. ministries in Cz Rep, Bulgaria, or Poland (views: 4245)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

In the early 9Os I taught at Ostrava University in CZ It was part of the *Fast Track* programme set up by the Min of Ed and the British Council to train the next generation of language teachers - English not Russian. No idea if this is still running as Fast Track but no doubt the teacher training programmes are. ....

Olympic EFL experiences? (views: 3971)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
eigoman

Has anyone out there taught anyone currently competing in Torino? I ask because I have taught top-end athletes before although none who are competing in the Olympics this time around. ....

New site to watch (views: 4378)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Guy Courchesne

http://www.teflwatch.org/forum/ ....

Filling the void (views: 3926)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

Thanks for the link, Guy. With Dave's Job Informational Journal a thing of the past I would think we might see a few more of these popping up. ....

Efl-law.org changes (views: 4045)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Guy Courchesne

Elf-law.org hs a great forum with info mostly about Korea. Unfortunately, they've just switched over to a paid-member format, which isn't worth it to a lurker like me. I can understand the reason for now asking for a small fee, but I think they've just cut off a large number of readers. ....

Whither EFL-LAW.org? (views: 5123)

Online (Online) - Thu, 02 Mar 2006
Posted by likinglurking

Hi...I'm a big-time lurker on sites like this one and EFL-LAW where I bit the bullet and registered so that I could read the posts there. Can anyone tell me why they wouldn't make a single legal issue/advice forum paid and leave the rest of the forums - at worst - registration only? The way they have it now seems a bit ridiculous and contrary to the community spirit of most of these forums. I can't imagine it has resulted in anything but a decrea....

Re: Whither EFL-LAW.org? (views: 4049)

Online (Online) - Fri, 03 Mar 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

I still hold to my prediction that they will go back to the old format or, as you say, make only only small legal advice area of their site for paid members. It doesn't make sense to put up such a barrier to readers. ....

Re: Efl-law.org changes (views: 3768)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

I have recommended both the .com and the .org web sites to teachers in the past and I remain convinced that EFL-Law is a positive force for change in the TESOL industry. Their in-camera approach to discussion, however, has never appealed to me. I'm not one for registering to use forums even when they're free. ....

Re: Efl-law.org changes (views: 5090)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

Sounds as though it's either a very shrewd strategy that even as an experienced maketer I fail to grasp... or they are perhaps being a tad foolish... Are there other parties that have recently become involved? ....

Re: Efl-law.org changes (views: 4128)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Looks like they've brought some advertisers on board, and have started a Google-Ads campaign. I think, mostly, the site operator has become tired of giving out free legal advice. They will be back as a free site within 2 months, I'll wager. ....

Re: Efl-law.org changes (views: 4417)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by Henry

I'm afraid I could never get as excited about efl-law as most other people. The idea is great and the forums could have been excellent, except they were populated by hyper-active screamers who would yell and shout and threaten everyone who posted something which vaguely suggested something which went against the efl-law creed. In other words, had they had a balanced forum where issues were discussed with facts used to back them up, then it would ....

Conversely (views: 4431)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Peter

In Response To: Arguing Grammar (Rheno747) Grammar vs Communication Grammar vs Communication. Which is more important when learning English as a second language? English grammar or English communication? When a native English teacher is in the classroom, lessons tend to focus on English communication. In the absence of a native English teacher, lessons tend to focus on English grammar. So which is the better skill to have? Sure it would be easy t....

The only weakness.... (views: 4432)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Peter, I wanted to tell you your argument does have a small weakness. I had to run to class and didn't get to add my thoughts about it.. It's pretty solid overall, save for a weak link. This is your claim "The Japanese are one of the worst English speakers in the world, yet English learning is a mandatory part of their school curriculum from the age of 11. The Germans on the other hand speak beautiful English by the time they graduate high school....

Agreed (views: 4157)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Great retort, Peter. I have two other farang teachers here with me (I DID have a third, but he escaped this funny farm after 2 months), and we get into this 'grammar vs. communication' every other day it seems. Sometimes I take the communication side of the argrument, and sometimes I take the grammar side. In my classes, I have to do both. One complements the other. However, my brethren cover very little grammar as they prefer to focus on communi....

The debate widens (views: 4213)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

I agree that in an ideal context grammar and communication should be given an equal standing but it is interesting perhaps to look at specific contexts of language learning and how this impacts on learner perceptions. I use my own experiences as an example: My language learning has taken place in two main types of environment – the classroom as a student where learning has been very much grammar based and geared towards passing an exam at the e....

Unfortunately,...... (views: 3868)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

One problem with 'accuracy' is that accuracy tends to limit creativity. However, creativity is frowned upon if it affects accuracy, especially among the anal grammarians. What choice does a student have? Good question. Accuracy is important, you better believe it. Language that isn't 'accurate' enough (too ambiguous) may get someone killed or sued. If I'm mixing two chemicals together in a chemistry lab according to specific directons, those dire....

Arguing Grammar (views: 4651)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Rheno747

When I attended a TESOL teacher training program in Thailand, I was somewhat disappointed by the minor coverage of grammar. I've recently constructed an argument in support of this important aspect of TEFL. Hopefully, my stance will help shatter the idea that it's acceptable to slight grammar in our classrooms. I begin with a question. Is learning English grammar really important in TEFL/TESOL? I say "absolutely." Understanding grammar will give ....

Chicks Dig It (views: 4298)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by Carson Menaffey

Great post. I agree 100%. I would add the fact that "chicks dig it" when you're a male TEFL student and you understand English grammar well enough to tutor it. ....

Re: Arguing Grammar (views: 4279)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Very insightful post and observations Rheno. While a short course may tend to focus on communicative approaches, grammar should not be forgotten. If one enters a course without a basic understanding of English grammar and leaves the course the same way, there is little hope of being an effective teacher. Mind you, a teacher's undestanding of grammar and presentation models is something often best gained through experience. ....

Re: Arguing Grammar (views: 4090)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

Guy I think that grammar is such a broad and complex subject it is impossible to cover it in any significant depth on a 4-week cert programme. Scheduling just doesnt permit anything more than an *introduction* to grammar and how to present it. I have spent years in and out of the classroom and although I have more of an understanding of English grammar than the lay person, to say I was anywhere near an expert would be far from the truth. Understa....

Re: Arguing Grammar (views: 3993)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Posted by GoTeacher

"Understanding and learning to teach grammar is an ongoing task..." Agreed. Learning to teach (by taking a TESOL course) is ultimately about teaching to learn. Every post-course class a new teacher teaches contributes to an experiential understanding of the philosophies and methodologies "taught" to trainees during their courses. The most important thing a new teacher can learn from a training program is how to reflect on their lessons, learn fro....

Re: Arguing Grammar (views: 4306)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Personally, I don't expect trainees to know very much about grammar before a course starts, other than having an unconscious awareness of proper usage. In applying for a course, we look at a student's writing to help make a determination on their suitability for the program. Grammar study during the program is a thread that runs through the whole course. We provide each student/pair with a CD to do nightly assignments on grammar where the student....

Thank you (views: 4240)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

The grammar structuring of your programme sounds as comprehensive as your answer to my question! ....

Re: Thank you (views: 4158)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

How about something for comparison, Peter? I'm not familiar with your background. ....

Re: Thank you (views: 4481)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

Feel free to ask questions - what would you like to know? ....

Re: Thank you (views: 4251)

Online (Online) - Sat, 18 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

I had anwered the wrong post with that question of mine, Peter, sorry. I'll let it stand. Where are you teaching? What kind of work are you doing? How do you feel about grammar in how is it presented in TEFL courses or other teacher training courses? ....

Re: Thank you (views: 5317)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

I’ve spent my time teaching but haven’t been in the classroom – as a teacher – for donkey’s years. My ELT experiences have largely been behind the scenes in managerial/operational/business development type roles. I now do freelance bits and pieces which includes working with Bruce from TI marketing his programmes in the UK. Generally speaking, with questions of grammar I naturally see the importance of providing a structure to language ....

Re: Thank you (views: 4356)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Thank you for the detailed response. "In my view, language is about communicating and whilst sufficient accuracy is required for comprehension, I believe that as language is acquired, grammar, to an extent, falls naturally into place – this view is formed from my experiences as a teacher and language learner." I share that opinion and experience. ....

Re: Thank you (views: 4250)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Feb 2006
Posted by klaus

...the usual claptrap espoused by those who know nothing of linguistic structure and less about teraching language. ....

Re: Thank you (views: 4441)

Online (Online) - Sat, 25 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Care to share your thoughts Klaus? C'mon, let us know your experience with grammar or language instruction. ....

Re: Thank you (views: 4580)

Online (Online) - Sat, 25 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

Clearly, whilst Klaus has The Answer, he's not going to share it with laborers at the chalk face like us. Maybe he's too busy writing a paper to get some more letters after his name. ....

Klaus Von Bungle-low (views: 4640)

Online (Online) - Sat, 25 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

I have to agree. It seems the more letters after an "educator", the less useful he is in the classroom. Theory may look appealing in a book, but heory means nothing to a bored kid sitting a sweltering classroom. The is especially true if the sex hormones have started raging. All the theory in the world wouldn't make my students do their homework, practice outside of class, or even increase their interest in this subject. I doubt neither Steven Pi....

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. (views: 4565)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Feb 2006
Posted by Carson Menaffey

Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you! ....

Re: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. (views: 4713)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

You're welcome ....

Also consider... (views: 4481)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

Language Acquisition vs Language Learning by Julio Foppoli According to linguists (i.e. scientists who engage in the scientific study of human language) there is an important distinction between language acquisition and language learning. As you may well have noticed, children acquire their mother tongue through interaction with their parents and the environment that surrounds them. Their need to communicate paves the way for language acquisition....

Grammar + Communication Practice (views: 4121)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Right on. I just had to deal with this 'issue' this morning, the reality that grammar knowledge alone is nothing without communication practice. Yes, it is hard for ESOL students to acquire this thing called English. However, according to the great minds Chomsky and Pinker, humans can't help but become fluent in a language if they try. The language device exists in our heads. This same device is all 'wired up' to our facial muscles and larynx rea....

For all of you English teachers out there. (views: 4040)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
kruggle

So, I have been reading all these posts about how kids overseas simply don't care about the study of English. Well, I still see hope in this profession.. Remember how when we were young and we were taught alphabets in Language Arts and times table in Math class? How long did it take you to learn all the alphabets? Were you even interested in memorizing the alphabets at all? Math class's times table was probably... taught in humm grade 2? but like....

Yeah, I remember (views: 4269)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

I remember those days. Those days when I goofed off and didn't learn much. But for me, those days ended when I was about 12. After I headed off to like 8th grade, I got my shit together and started studying and doing homework. I have/had students in Thailand who never do/did any studying or homework and they're in their early 20s. Most are mediocre at best in any subject, not just English. They watch cartoons that would have bored me at 12, and s....

Instrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation (views: 4737)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by GoTeacher

Kids are kids. Most younger children don't know why their parents drop them off with the scary looking foreigner who speaks funny. Teachers have to do what they can to make learning English both fun and meaningful. It can be tough and it is an ongoing effort regardless of individual successes. A lot of new EFL teachers emerge from teacher training courses under the mistaken assumption that teaching beginner lessons to children is easier than teac....

Curious about it all.... (views: 2701)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Austin Hunter

Ok... Here I am a 23 year old male about to graduate in May and I hear from a friend what a good idea this is about teaching English Abroad. I mean of course im a little skeptical and I have a few questions about it. I appreciate any feedback on the these questions. Thanks, Austin Questions: 1) I would really like to just teach the younger ones, like kindergarten and 1st grade levels? Do you really get to chose? 2) What are some of the better pay....

Where you need to go (views: 2517)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

You need to go to South Korea. But before you jump on a plane, do some homework. For one thing, there are plenty of posts on here with great advice on choosing where to work. You should read those posts. Also, hold off on getting a TESOL. Many jobs in SK don't require a TESOL. You'll need a (real) bachelor's degree, but that's about it. Some places, Thailand, for instance, more or less require a foreign teacher possess a TESOL in order to be lega....

Re: Curious about it all.... (views: 2898)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

1) I would really like to just teach the younger ones, like kindergarten and 1st grade levels? Do you really get to chose? In my experience – which is mostly of teaching in Europe, you aren’t given a great deal of choice about the classes you teach especially as a newly qualified teacher. However, you will probably find, in Europe at least, that many of your classes will be Young Learners any way. 2) What are some of the better paying areas t....

Hallmarks of a scam/good list of scam schools (views: 2835)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Jason

Hey, you guys have been really helpful, first of all. thanks. I'm about to start shooting off resume's to schools, and was wondering: 1: what are the hallmarks of a sketchy job post? And if you get contacted by a school, what should you listen for to make you think twice? 2: what's a good website with a list of known scams? ....

Re: Hallmarks of a scam/good list of scam schools (views: 2911)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

ESL Cafe's Job Informational Journal was THE place to go for this type of information until Dave took it down a few months ago. Forums on sites all over the Net remain good places to ask questions of experienced teachers. ....

Party and Speak English (views: 2740)

Online (Online) - Sat, 11 Feb 2006
jimmy

RED NIGHT PARTY WITH PARTYNENGLISH (Saturday on February 18th 2006) OkayKorea is promoting their 3rd party in celebrating Valentine¡¯s Day and White Day. Partynenglish is inviting you to our Red Night Party with PartyNenglish. The Red Night Party with Partynenglish is scheduled for Saturday, February 18th from 8:00 pm ~ 5:00 am. It will be at GangnamGu, Samsung-Dong. (Right next to the COEX Mall) We are hoping to bring all the Korean and Englis....

Really different (views: 2745)

Online (Online) - Sat, 11 Feb 2006
Rich

Hey everybody! My name is Rich and I have some experiences you might want to know about. I really love Thailand and so for the past few years I have been saving up to do a TEFL course. I had planned on taking the TEFL International course in Ban Phe. I had visited them before and they seemed like a good outfit. But when the time came I decided to take another course in Phuket because I had heard it was good, too. I was really disappointed in the ....

How goes? (views: 2849)

Online (Online) - Fri, 17 Mar 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Rich, how goes it? Did you find a teaching job? Good luck. ....

Cool. Now go out in the real world and get a real job (views: 2660)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Good to hear you had a great experience there at TI. I went through that program there at Ban Phe. Dave Hopkins was in charge of the academic side of it back then. Hopefully he still is. Well, actually, being as Dave is one of the finest in TEFL, I hope he's back at Harvard or Yale teaching as a fully-tenured professor. Now that you've completed the course, I guess you're going out and getting a real job teaching real students someplace. I can te....

Some basic instructions (views: 2780)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by Bruce

Think about what you want in a job and look for that, not the first job that offers decent money. Before taking a job talk to the other teachers. Find out the problems they ahve. Then remember THIS IS THAILAND. THings will not work like they do back home. If you get to a place where u really cannot deal, find another place to work. There are lots of jobs in other countries. ....

Reasons to Forget TEFL? (views: 2601)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Rheno747

Here are some good reasons I myself am using to talk myself out of teaching TEFL: 1. The blame game. Farang white faces get the blame no matter who is really at fault. This is true in China, South Korea, Thailand.....wherever. 2. Students in Thailand don't really want to learn this stuff. They don't care about English. Face it. 3. Every year I teach EFL is one fewer year I'm contributing to my own social security in the USA (I'm a US citizen). I ....

To Ying: Even more reasons to chuck it (views: 2779)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

I'm actually seriously considering chucking ESL for the reasons both I and you mentioned, Ying. I see clearly now what we're doing here in Asian. Our roles are not to be educators, but to be mere babysitters and billboards. Yeah, my students, just like yours, don't study and the directors of our schools don't care. Those same directors use our cute white faces, and especially pictures of our cute white faces, to sell their schools. Yeap, in Asia,....

Reasons to Stay? (views: 2731)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Posted by kruggle

I would also like to add.. if i actually get the opportunity to teach abroad again after graduation.. i think the reason i would want to come back to canada after a few years is because I want my kids (if i get any) to be educated in Canada and NOT Asia.. But, what are your reasons to stay anyway? opportunity to travel? learn about other cultures? dont want to leave your local friends? ....

Why I got into it (views: 2640)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

I got into TEFL because it gave me a chance to escape America. I'm an America hater, and getting out of the brainwashing and propoganda was imperative for me. Okay, shoveling snow in -10 degree weather for ten bucks an hour helped in my decision as well. Here I don't know the language, so the propaganda factor doesn't bother me as much. To top it off, I've not seen a temperature lower than 55 since April 2004. Downsized? Tired of being an 'inflat....

A question for Raoul, Hoodoo and other teachers in China (views: 2506)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
eigoman

Are you feeling richer yet? "Revision of personal income tax laws means foreign English teachers in China get to keep more of their salaries" ....

Re: A question for Raoul, Hoodoo and other teachers in China (views: 2766)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

I'm not in China at the moment mate: back in Australia paying around 33% tax. In China I was paying about 5%. I've never had so much disposable income in my life as there, on about 10,000 rmb a month! No rent or bills either. ....

Wet behind the Ears (views: 2402)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Steven

I am a 55 year-old, retired college instructor (and active mountaineer) who has written several manuals on technical writing. I am researching teaching positions in Asia. I've read online that Korean employers do not want older instructors. Is this true? Although, I've also read, Chinese Universities honor older instructors. Am I "over the hill"? Thanks. Steven ....

Unfortunately..... (views: 2630)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Unfortunately, your age will prevent you from getting many jobs in South Korea. But not all jobs. If I were you, I'd concentrate on the universities and colleges. Forget the high schools. Especially forget the hogwans, the 'after-school' cram schools rich parents send their kids (brats) to. One of the roles TEFL teachers must play is that of walking billboard. Yes, schools who hire us on can, and do, use our white faces to attract legal tender fr....

Re: Unfortunately..... (views: 2645)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

China has no problem with 55 years, though don't expect "honour". That's an increasingly outdated concept. You get respect by earning it, plus marketing yourself as an English teacher will boost your stocks. ....

Wet... (views: 2844)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by Steven

Respect, I've always viewed as an earnable commodity, even in the most unruly classroom (and adults can be more insidiously disrespectful than children); honorability, well, either you've got it in your bones or you "ain't". I appreciate the advice and support, although I previously thought it was unwise to go without a job offer. Researching colleges and universities should be a no-brainer, and also, I imagine I can find the right contact person....

Some other advice (views: 2477)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Here are two more pieces of advice for you. Research Chinese schools thoroughly. Apparently, only a few schools there can employ you legally. Also, I've read many a nightmare story about China from unknowing, unsuspecting souls who got caught in that spider's web. Do your homework when it comes to China, man. If you do go to South Korea, watch for the problem of the 'young buck'. Young bucks are young(usually 23-25-year-old granola types from the....

Re: Wet... (views: 2941)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

Steven I wouldn't necessarily recommend door knocking. There's a ton of sites and direct links out there. Here's a starter: http://www.findaschool.org/index.php?Country=China A degreed native speaker with publications should waltz into a decent uni job, the only way to go in your case. Looking academic and respectable in a photo helps too. Go for it. ....

Re: Wet... (views: 2887)

Online (Online) - Sat, 11 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

PS STEVEN, a site that provides more direct employment related info is www.chinatefl.com Go to the individual schools' contact details rather than through the site itself: my experience only. ....

ahhh (views: 3003)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Ahhh. I see where you're getting your 20K figure, Hoodoo. I agree. 20K in China? No way, at least legally. ....

Re: ahhh (views: 3069)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

No Rheno, the figure came from Steven's "The Road Less Traveled" post: see above. It is possible to earn this and I could have, and have known people who do it. Emphasis on past tense. They burned out. I went to China to chill and complete PG studies. Sometimes the offers [eg 300USD for a 6 hour Saturday stint X 11 weeks] become too tempting, but generally I stuck to my plan and now have a well paid ESL job back home as a result. ....

Re: Wet... (views: 2905)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Posted by Jason

Hmm, I just looked at the site you posted...the job descriptions are very out of date. ....

Re: Wet... (views: 2690)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

Probably Jason. Its a huge effort for schools to put up an English language page, so they tend to avoid rewriting them. I just look at the bottom line: salary, hours, housing, Then I ask questions by email or fax. ....

Begging the Question (views: 2929)

Online (Online) - Sat, 11 Feb 2006
Posted by Steven

Excellent advice and great link. The State of Washington, where I live, has an agency registered to do business with the PRC. The agency says they will place you and take care of the visa, etc. & etc. In the department of "I read somewhere...": there are three basic permits to teach in China; several postings said emphatically that a placement service charging you is BSing you; and my experience is a university that wants you has internal contact....

That sounds good (views: 2740)

Online (Online) - Sun, 12 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Sounds like you got it figured out. Do some research on places where you want to work (China, SK, Japan, Thailand, et. al) and start emailing folks. When you have a good list of schools, get on a plane and go check them out. And take plenty of mullah. Some idiots actually go overseas to teach TEFL nearly broke. You can read about their experiences here and at eslteachersboard.com. Good luck. ....

Re: That sounds good (views: 3189)

Online (Online) - Sun, 12 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

20,000? 60 hours a week of corporate training maybe. My best corp gig paid USD 50 an hour, but these are rare and usually only a few hours a week. 6,000 at a respectable big city uni is not bad. If you can get 8,000 that's sweet. Remember, China is cheap. 100 a day is normally plenty. You get housing and utilities, as well as free lunches. ....

Re: That sounds good (views: 2859)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Hoo-Doo, you think I'm talking about a salary. That's my fault. I was't clear enough in my post. Let me explain: 20,000 tuition for master's 30,000 in opportunity cost (money I won't be making because I'm sitting in a classroom instead of working) 50,000? Yeah, I could see a master's costing me 50k. ....

A Worn Out Welcome (views: 2949)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Posted by Steven

Informative and cordial: a fitting epitaph for our postings. Thank you very much for your kind and wise advice; and especially for allowing me to particpate in a congenial thread about teaching in China. It is a harbinger of things to come. I have already received my first two offers, if I can pack up and leave immediately (not so fast, I think). I am adventurous, but I have a few ducks to put in a row. Yes, I found 20,000 RMB a "tall-tale" in th....

The ad wizards (views: 3153)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by Carson Menaffey

Hey, you want to know the truth about TEFL, just look at the flashing e-billboard on this site for "The TEFL Corporation." that will tell you whom the TEFL powers really "want" in this business. Do you see lots of older guys like yourself, Steven? ....

Bursting their bubble (views: 3101)

Online (Online) - Mon, 20 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

Incidents like the deportation of 50+ Canadian English teachers and the English Spectrum fiasco likely have some schools and students reconsidering their preference for younger teachers in Korea. Older teachers need to focus on the positive. More and more "mature" teachers are finding work in Japan and other markets where youth was once prioritized at the expense of professionalism and ability. ....

THOSE kind of jobs, eh? (views: 2992)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Ha-ha. So you've alredy had the sweet nothings whispered to you. Yeah, you have the idea. Any school director who wanted me to drop everything and come, come, come in the blink of an eye wouldn't be hearing from me again. If a school needs somebody THAT badly, you know you won't last there. The guys before you tore outta there for (probably) good reasons, which is the real reason the school suddenly needs sombody in a big hurry. ....

Re: Begging the Question (views: 2707)

Online (Online) - Sat, 11 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

Steven, provided you're in reasonable physical condition with some hair, no-one in China will think of you as old. People generally under guessed my age by 15 years. Being pursued by women half your age is flattering, even if you don't take up the offers. Make a short list of schools and email away. Don't send too much: it won't get read. Just a summary of major publications will do the trick. Remember, its an English teacher they want. And agenc....

The Road Less Traveled (views: 3555)

Online (Online) - Sun, 12 Feb 2006
Posted by Steven

Great encouragement. Thanks! I don't mean to camp on your good will, but let's say I have 18 months to prepare for my departure: as I see it, I can become certified through one of our regional teacher training programs (or an intensive university ESL program); or, I can just focus on marketing myself and putting my affairs in order to leave. I stumbled onto this link, http://chinalife.typepad.com/home/ which is a blog-in-the-life of a certified t....

kind of stuck... (views: 3027)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Jason

alright, I'm kind of stuck. I don't have the time or money for a decent CELTA course But I can't for the life of me tell which TEFL/TESOL online/distance learning courses are remotely legit. I'm thinking of doing ITTT's distance learning because it's just cheap enough that if I get burned it's not too much money. Anyone have experience with that company? Please respond...I'm thinking of applying within the next day or two. Also, how is I-to-I? I ....

Re: kind of stuck... (views: 2851)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Without a teaching practicum, you will not be very employable. ....

Supervised practice teaching vs. teaching practicums (views: 2844)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

Is there a difference? I remember being involved in a fairly lengthy thread on this topic last year. Supervised practice teaching as provided by most mainstream, CELTA-type courses is an introduction to the classroom. While important and undeniably beneficial, it falls well short of what most public school educators recall as a practicum from their B.Ed days when they may have spent months in the classroom with a mentor teacher nurturing them, no....

Re: Supervised practice teaching vs. teaching practicums (views: 2622)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

"Is there a difference?" To me, there is. Zero hours vs any hours is enough. Of course the ideal is the more the better. ....

Re: Supervised practice teaching vs. teaching practicums (views: 2801)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

"Of course the ideal is the more the better." I'm more interested in the nature of the hours than the total number, Guy. As far as I am concerned, there is a big difference between supervising a course trainee and mentoring a student teacher. The B.Ed model is more consistent with the approaches other professions take to training. Medicine is a good example. Med students work with and under working doctors for prolonged periods of time. From inte....

Re: Supervised practice teaching vs. teaching practicums (views: 2768)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Oh I completely agree. I took a general approach to the idea of 'practicum' but yes, most certainly, the quality counts. We have two forms of practicum in our courses. The main onsite TEFL course involves supervised and guided practice classes and lesson design with real language students. We also run 4 and 8 week internships for those coming through our online version TEFL, or as stand alone programs that prep for actual teaching employment. The....

Re: Supervised practice teaching vs. teaching practicums (views: 2886)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

How are your interns supervised/observed/given constructive feedback etc. Guy? Can you expand on how this works? ....

Re: Supervised practice teaching vs. teaching practicums (views: 2994)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

"How are your interns supervised/observed/given constructive feedback etc. Guy? Can you expand on how this works?" It varies by student/teacher, program, and location of internship, as we try to meet the needs of a variety of student types. For those coming through the online version of our TEFL courses, we offer two options. The first is to come into Mexico City at a later date to work within our onsite TEFL practicum. Here, the student teachers....

End of an era? (views: 3228)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

"The second is to move into a short term internship at one of several language schools in Mexico with whom we developed a program. Most couple interns with teachers in an assistant role, with more and more autonomy given as the program progresses, and includes several hours work on experimentation and lesson development with a variety of students. Feedback comes directly from the master teacher and program director." As far as I am concerned, thi....

Re: kind of stuck... (views: 2811)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by Jason

Well, I've had experience as a substitute teacher and teacher's assistant; but that's in the american school system, not in TEFL. Would that make me more appealing? ....

Plug and play (views: 2635)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

"Well, I've had experience as a substitute teacher and teacher's assistant; but that's in the american school system, not in TEFL. Would that make me more appealing?" I think so. TESOL philosophies and methodologies are often "plug and play" for experienced teachers. You're approaching entry into the field in a very positive way. You are not overestimating your ability to teach English just because you have taught something else. That shows you r....

Re: Plug and play (views: 2845)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by Jason

Thanks Eigoman. And thanks to you all actually, glad I started a fairly rich discussion here, really helped. Yeah, you're right about respecting the profession. If there's one thing I learned while substitute teaching in k-8, it's that if you don't know the basics of what you're getting into, you'll look like an idiot. *But after learning those basics* you don't need to get to fancy either. Since I've done substitute teaching, I'm hesitant toward....

Re: Plug and play (views: 3462)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

"Guy C., do you know of any plans for some organized body to start regulating TEFL? I'm curious." Yeah, I'm sorry too. I'm not usually so terse in my posts. We get used to a lot people who are completely new to teching asking about the cheapest possible way to get a certificate and start teaching abroad. It just gets tiresome. Like Eigoman notes, you've got a great attitude to do this. I don't know of any body yet that is truly impartial. Looking....

Previous discussion (views: 3078)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

"Looking back about a year, we were discussing such a thing here..." I was in contact with IATEFL after the previous discussion but they were reluctant to *step on the toes* of UCLES and TCL... vested interests etc... not convinced there is a need... Comments on TI's Board of Academic Advisors? ....

Re: kind of stuck... (views: 2602)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

That's different. Sorry, I assumed you were without experience and looking for the cheap way out. ....

The cheap way may be the best way (views: 2853)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

The so-called 'cheap' way may be the best way for some people, such as yours truly. Loads of people get into this business, man, and loads of those end up not liking TEFL. They spend wads on TESOL programs, plane tickets, whatever, and end up chucking their certifications when they discover reality doesn't fit the descriptions. For these folks, I say take TEFL on a test drive first. Go the cheap route, and if you like it, go get a real cert/maste....

Re: The cheap way may be the best way (views: 3067)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Familiar now with your story, and where you teach, you may be right. For those just starting out, volunteering is probably the cheapest and best way to gain the experience. When you are going overseas and expect to be compensated for work...compensated with the money students pay rightly expecting to have a well-trained teacher, I think that pay should be right in line with the time, money, and effort the teacher puts into his or her own developm....

Well.... (views: 2746)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

Well, maybe not monetary 'rewards'. Farang teachers in Thailand get paid handsomely, at least compared to Thai natives. Compared to their own native countries though, those farang's salaries are pittance. You better believe that if I'm teaching overseas teaching the lazy students I teach for the salary I earn, I'll be getting a fake master's. Yessiree. ....

Re: kind of stuck... (views: 2804)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by Henry

I disagree. It depends on where you want to find work. For sure a lot of teachers with online certs and no practicum have found work. Plus, some online certs have a practicum component. ....

Korean parents putting their children up for adoption to American parents to ensure... (views: 2537)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
TESall.com

Korean parents putting their children up for adoption to American parents to ensure English language success, brighter future ....

English language odometer set to roll over magic one million word mark in next couple of months ....

Last time I counted... (views: 2771)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

there were only 759,643 words in the English language. Go figure. I'll have to start again from scratch. ....

Fight the Mindset (views: 2700)

Online (Online) - Mon, 06 Feb 2006
Rheno747

I'd like to post a word about one mindset that has been 'welded' to the area between the ears of a lot of those in TEFL. That mindset is what exactly makes one a 'good' teacher. I hear too often in round-table discussions and teachers mettings, and I see too often in posts on website such as this, that if students are bored with a teacher's class/techniques, he is a 'bad' teacher and is incompetent/doesn't care, whatever. And the flip side of tha....

It gets worse (views: 3022)

Online (Online) - Sun, 12 Feb 2006
Posted by Larsen

I taught a class similar to your "paragraph writing class" last semester myself. I was supposed to teach paragraph writing to students who couldn't even write sentences. This semester, I'm teaching some of the students I had in THAT class in yet another class. The name of the new class is "Basic Sentence Structure and Grammar." I cringe when I think what it will be like if I start teaching mathematics. It'll go something like this: My first semes....

Re: Fight the Mindset (views: 2761)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by Raoul Duke

The same phenomenon is very much alive in China, too. A "good" teacher is one that behaves themselves and, most important, helps maintain and expand the revenue stream of the school by keeping the students happy, entertained, and self-satisfied. Learning is an irrelevant, not necessarily welcome byproduct. I'm lucky. Working in corporate training got me out of this and many other horrible loops found in traditional school settings in China...and ....

Yeah, it's babysitting--not teaching (views: 3086)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

I'm glad somebody else out there agrees. It's hard to find white folks around here, at least outside my own school, who think the way I do. Everyone seems to have bought into the notion that 'it's okay if your students don't learn anything.' Hey--I didn't get into this to be a mere billboard or a babysitter. ....

Re: Fight the Mindset (views: 3326)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

I had some wonderful students in China. They'd learned to speak good English despite the hurdles. Why? Beccause they wanted to. I even had a few half way reasonable classes. But the rest? Yeah, what you're both saying. My best students ever were corporates who chose to give up their weekends. And here in Australia, the migrants and refugees who know that without the language, they're trapped in welfare and the ghetto: not much better than where t....

Am there. Am doing that. (views: 2771)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by Rheno747

That sounds exactly like my situation here. My weekend students (older adults in their 30s)are great. Maybe that's because they themselves pay their tution. My weekday students are the typical immature, relying-on-daddy's-money students who won't study, practice, or do homework. If I 'interfere' with their 'relaxed' lifestyle, they bitch that I'm a slavedriver. This TEFL baloney is aggravating at times. Why did I get in this again? ....

Thinking about it (views: 2288)

Online (Online) - Mon, 06 Feb 2006
Holly

Im not sure if this is the appropriate place to post these questions, but any help would be appreciated. I think seriously thinking about doing this program. I live in Ontario, and want to take the course within the next few months. I want to know any helpful tips anyone can offer. I do not have a University degree, but will have a college diploma. How important is it to specialize? etc. Thank you ....

Re: Thinking about it (views: 2470)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by Holly

Thank you Guy. I was looking at Oxford Seminars so far. Has anyone here dealt with them at all, anything that will help me decide? I want to take the ESL not TEFL...I am just getting farmiliarized with all these terms! Thanks again to anyone who has advice. ....

Re: Thinking about it (views: 2423)

Online (Online) - Mon, 06 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Before you decide on a program, try emailing a few schools in countries tht most interest you, to see what is required. It may be you'll not need a course (I assume you mean a TEFL program), or you may find that in certain countries you won't be eligible for a work visa without a degree. Save yourself some money and time by cutting the communications chain. ....

Traineship in South Africa (views: 2576)

Online (Online) - Mon, 06 Feb 2006
Justine

Hi, I study to become a teacher of English in Holland. I would like to do my last traineeship abroad, South Africa. Who can give me tips or tell me from their own experiences what the possibilities are. ....

ESL schools (views: 2293)

Online (Online) - Sat, 04 Feb 2006
Experienced T

Hey, if you're thinking about working in Vancouver Canada, DO NOT work at EJ College Canada!! It's the most terrible school! I've worked around the world and this one is the worst! ....

The ESL Cafe lawsuit (views: 3052)

Online (Online) - Sat, 04 Feb 2006
Baitz

I just read a link from this site to a story about a teacher in Korea who is suing Dave's ESL Cafe. I'm sorry, but am I the only one who thinks this suit is ridiculous? Surely it is not incumbant upon Dave to investigate every ad that his posted on his site, regardless of the fee he charges. Unless the ad is a blatant scam, the most he can do is that which he has already done: post a disclaimer. ....

Re: The ESL Cafe lawsuit (views: 3057)

Online (Online) - Sun, 05 Feb 2006
Posted by Henry

Yet another case of people not taking responsibility for their own actions and looking for someone else to blame for their own mistakes. ....

Urban legends in the ESL industry (views: 4115)

Online (Online) - Mon, 06 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

Is this story actually true? I know it made the pages of EL Gazette, but ever since the rumour first started making the rounds I have been dismissing it as an anti-Dave pipe dream. Do newspapers in Korea actually follow-up on every classified ad they publish? Does Ebay work there? I can agree with the sentiment that Dave rakes it in and owes teachers more than he currently provides in terms of protection from bad schools and recruiters. I can't b....

Re: Urban legends in the ESL industry (views: 2803)

Online (Online) - Mon, 06 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Efl-law has been running a number of threads on the topic, as they are quite anti-Dave's. The operator of Efl-law, who is some kind of lawyer, believes the suit won't go through since the site is not based in Korea. ....

Re: Urban legends in the ESL industry (views: 2902)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

"...the suit won't go through since the site is not based in Korea." The suit shouldn't go through because it is just plain ridiculous. I wonder if the plaintiff would sue the parents of a girlfriend who dumped him or the phone company after buying something from an unscrupulous telemarketer? I sympathize with his situation and understand his resentment but if anything his lawsuit will only generate publicity for Dave's ESL Cafe and further entre....

Re: Urban legends in the ESL industry (views: 3283)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

I think there is precedent in the publishing industry for such a case, at least in North America. One has to prove intent, so, if one ad is misleading, then there's no intent to mislead. If it is an ongoing pattern, then you might be able to prove intent. That would have to be a class action suit I gues. ....

Blaming Dave for the sorry state of the TESOL industry (views: 3186)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

Dave is not responsible for the sorry state of English language teaching in Korea or anywhere else in the world. I can agree with those who suggest he makes a lot of money off of us (where would any web site be without its users?) and that he could (and used to!) do more to protect teachers but where does one draw the line? He is not a babysitter. Teachers need to do there research. For every job ad a teacher reads on his site there is relevant f....

Could there be blame? (views: 2963)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Feb 2006
Posted by Carson Menaffey

One could argue that Dave contributes to "the sorry state of the TESOL industry." At least indirectly, that is. Dave is just one guy. When he set up his site, it probably was easy to police. As it grew, it got harder. Now it's probably next to impossible to ensure every advertiser is legit. Unfortunately, not everyone advertising a school or recruiting services on Dave's is a lilly-white angel. And in the competitive whirlwind to land teachers or....

Re: Blaming Dave for the sorry state of the TESOL industry (views: 2992)

Online (Online) - Thu, 09 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

Agreed. A bit like blaming Al Capone for all the organised crime during the 20's and 30's. ....

Microsoft and ESL Cafe (views: 3312)

Online (Online) - Thu, 23 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

"A bit like blaming Al Capone for all the organised crime during the 20's and 30's." I hear you but when I think ESL Cafe I think monopoly, not mob. In many ways Dave is the Bill Gates of ESL. ....

Ma Bell and ESL Cafe (views: 3118)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Feb 2006
Posted by Carson Menaffey

ESL Cafe is so big today it reminds me of AT&T back in the early 80's. ESL Cafe has gotten to the size that self-policing is nearly impossible, just like AT&T was back in the day. ....

Re: Blaming Dave for the sorry state of the TESOL industry (views: 2936)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Raoul Duke

Har! Great analogy, hoodoo man... ....

Re: Urban legends in the ESL industry (views: 3082)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by Baitz

I guess that was my point. There would have to be some blatant disregard, wouldn't there? Think about papers here in NA. The LA Times can't employ experts in every classified ad category to review and follow-up on every insert. ....

Re: The ESL Cafe lawsuit (views: 2796)

Online (Online) - Sun, 05 Feb 2006
Posted by hoodoo guru

My online communications with Mr Sperling over the years have convinced me this man is personally unaccountable for ANYTHING. When you get too close to the mark he just cuts the communications cord. I would never touch anything he promotes. ....

You mean like my Thai students? (views: 2359)

Online (Online) - Sun, 05 Feb 2006
Posted by RhenoA380

I agree. That does sound like someone trying to blame someone else for their own mistakes and laziness. Hey, wait a second. I'm describing my very own students. Yeah, ten years ago, five years ago, ten months ago, five months ago. It was the same ol' story with my students. They goofed off and now don't know anything. When they don't understand me, they bitch and moan like it's MY fault. Keep on dreaming. ....

TEFLguru.com Domain for sale (views: 2333)

Online (Online) - Fri, 03 Feb 2006
TEFLguru.com

Dear sir, I just wanted to check whether anybody interested in "TEFLguru.com" domain i happen to own. I was planning to start something on that site but now i have too many things in hand and i'm looking to sell the domain. Do let me know what you think. Best Regards, Binoy Pillai contact@binoypillai.com ....

Re: TEFLguru.com Domain for sale (views: 2811)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Nov 2006
Posted by GoTeacher

Check out what comes up when you click through to www.teflguru.com now. ....

Re: TEFLguru.com Domain for sale (views: 2351)

Online (Online) - Fri, 24 Nov 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Ok, I have a question...somebody please tell me what law of nature applies... A breast REDUCTION costs more that a breast AUGMENTATION. A nose REDUCTION costs more that a nose AUGMENTATION. Am I missing something? More is less and less is more? ....

Re: TEFLguru.com Domain for sale (views: 4076)

Online (Online) - Tue, 28 Nov 2006
Posted by myball

I'm wondering what I am missing. How did a TEFL website end up in the hands of a plastic surgeon and why would they think that English teachers who end up on their site might be interested in plastic surgery? ....

Re: TEFLguru.com Domain for sale (views: 2643)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by TEFLguru.com

http://www.teflguru.com ....

How much is an ESL web site actually worth? (views: 2823)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

I'm talking functioning sites, not domain names. What would you guess? Here are my thoughts for four of the bigger name sites: Dave's ESL Cafe: $1.5 million TEFL.com: $500,000 ESL Lounge: $125,000 ESL Teachers Board: $100,000 ....

Where do all these sites come from, anyway? (views: 3072)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by FISHER

I use ESL Cafe a lot and have for years. I know about TEFL.com and occasionally have a look at it. ESL Teachers Board is a new one to me. ESL Lounge I have seen before I suppose. This one (Tesall) is relatively new to me. I guess I have only recently started straying from the Cafe. There seems to be a lot more out there than expected. Some good, more not. Anyone else have any comments on how many sites there are and why? Are the webmasters in it ....

Re: Where do all these sites come from, anyway? (views: 2564)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

Sites come and sites go. I remember when ESL Worldwide seemed like it was going to be the next big thing. I can also remember (and I'm dating myself here) when Linguistic Funland was right up there with ESL Cafe and the othewr 10 or 20 sites that were kicking around seemed like more than enough. Today there are hundreds and they all seem like they came off an ESL Cafe assembly line. Same resources, same jobs, same difference. Except Dave did it f....

Re: Where do all these sites come from, anyway? (views: 2785)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Posted by Henry

"Except Dave did it first and, like it or not, for the most part does it better." Dave did it first - true. But as for Dave doing it better, absolutely not. His site is awful; badly designed, difficult to navigate, poorly administered. Simply put, the only reason he is at the top is because he was there first. Which won't last. ....

Re: Where do all these sites come from, anyway? (views: 2860)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by Raoul Duke

The origin/reason for the site depends on the nature of the site. Some, like TESall, offer some real improvements over the Dave's ESL site. Others just want to cash in on Dave's fame/success. Our site came about from our one real beef with Dave and company: the steel-fisted, jackbooted administration of his China forums. These became the personal fiefdoms of a daisy chain of guys that let their own friends run roughshod over the place, while othe....

The ESL Cafe juggernaut (views: 2813)

Online (Online) - Sun, 19 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

I'm usually pretty quick to defend Dave's (and I have been doing so in another thread) but that by no means his site is beyond reproach. Your site's genesis is a case-in-point for what is actually wrong with Dave's (as opposed to issues related to quality of web site design, cost of ads, amount of money Mr. Sperling makes, etc.). It's good to know that sites like yours are there to take up the slack if/when Dave proves unwilling or unable to addr....

Re: The ESL Cafe juggernaut (views: 2857)

Online (Online) - Tue, 21 Feb 2006
Posted by Raoul Duke

Thanks, e-man. What's wrong with Dave's has been pretty good for us. I'm pretty happy with our place so far. I think one thing I am most proud of is that our place has managed to avoid the viciousness that seems to characterize a lot of these forums, especially China forums. The China forum at Dave's can be a pretty nasty place, as can many of the others that have sprung up. We've got a pretty affable and laid-back bunch of folks. TESall has also....

Re: Where do all these sites come from, anyway? (views: 2480)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

One of the reasons Dave's site does so well, and very much because of his being first into the fray, is because of the breadth of his reach, not the depth. Basic rule of internet relevance is how widely you are known, linked, and quoted. Dave gets of a lot of off-internet write ups. ....

Re: Where do all these sites come from, anyway? (views: 2655)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

Excellent post, Guy. There is traffic in general and then there is targeted traffic. Dave's ESL Cafe is linked from university employment centres, travel sites and many other coveted sources of new teachers. It makes his site attractive to advertisers, particularly teacher training programs and chain schools. It also ensures a constant turnover of users and a vibrancy that some other sites do not have. ....

Re: Where do all these sites come from, anyway? (views: 2572)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

I think you've pretty much named the top sites by traffice...there are a number of others, though smaller. ....

Re: Where do all these sites come from, anyway? (views: 2666)

Online (Online) - Sun, 12 Feb 2006
Posted by Henry

According to Alexa (an approximate system of ranking sites): www.eslcafe.com = 10,000 www.tefl.com = 50,000 www.eslteachersboard.com = 13,000 www.free-esl.com = 70,000 www.esl-lounge.com = 180,000 www.tesolmax.com = 240,000 www.linguisticfunland.com = 590,000 I own www.free-esl.com and just WISH it was earning the kind of money you suggest. True, Dave's earns a lot because of his popularity and the fact he charges so much but very soon people wil....

Unique visitors to each site (views: 2607)

Online (Online) - Wed, 15 Feb 2006
Posted by forbes.hat.on

How many unique vistors does Free-ESL attract on an average day? ESL Cafe attracts 13,000 or more, doesn't it? I applaud webmasters for giving it a go and trying to serve teachers and others in the industry but sites devoted to knocking ESL Cafe from the top of the mountain have a long way to climb. ....

Re: Unique visitors to each site (views: 2912)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by Henry

I'd like to know how that figure of 13,000 is worked out. ....

Unique reality of the ESL Cafe success equation (views: 2990)

Online (Online) - Thu, 16 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

I don't know where the 13000 number comes from. As near as I can tell, ESL Cafe's daily traffic is even higher: http://www.webstats4u.com/s?tab=1&link=1&id=370139&name=eslcafe I think someone mentioned this in a previous thread but it bears repeating now: Dave could stop maintaining ESL Cafe today and live off the traffic his site's thousands of links passively provide for years to come. I know that doesn't make his site better by any stretch, bu....

Striking distance of ESL Cafe? I highly doubt it.... (views: 3071)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

I know ESL Teachers Board has grown quickly, but I highly doubt it is within striking distance of Dave's after only two years. www.eslcafe.com = 10,000 www.eslteachersboard.com = 13,000 /not likely IMHO ....

Alexa rankings (views: 2598)

Online (Online) - Mon, 13 Feb 2006
Posted by Baitz

How accurate is Alexa? How does it work? ....

Re: Alexa rankings (views: 2521)

Online (Online) - Tue, 14 Feb 2006
Posted by Henry

IMO Alexa is very approximate but it does give a rough idea of rankings for web sites. Obviously the smaller the number, the higher the ranking. www.alexa.com People who download their toolbar in IE and go to a site send back that info to Alexa who rank the sites. ....

E$L web sites: two years to the promised land? (views: 2454)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by Baitz

ESL Teachers Board: $100,000...Are you serious? That site is only a couple of years old, isn't it? Maybe it is time to put up a web site of my own. ....

Re: How much is an ESL web site actually worth? (views: 2589)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

What do you base your numbers on? Ad revenue for a year? Longer? ....

Care to expand? (views: 2599)

Online (Online) - Tue, 07 Feb 2006
Posted by Peter

Interesting valuations... how have you come up with these figures? ....

Re: Care to expand? (views: 3067)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

I can't. Those numbers were complete shots in the dark. Well, the Dave one may less so. At $75 per job ad and 20 job ads (China, Korea, International boards) per day, he must be making $500,000 per year, give or take package deals on the job ads and before accounting for banner ads. Does anyone know how much those go for? ....

Re: Care to expand? (views: 2811)

Online (Online) - Wed, 08 Feb 2006
Posted by forbes.hat.on

I am not an expert in these things but I think I might be able to expand upon a valuation to a slightly greater degree. Firstly, I would suggest ESL Cafe is worth even more than eigoman proposes, likely in excess of US$2 million. Why? Well, here goes... -The job ad revenue is likely as eigoman approximated. Let's go with $500,000 per year. -The banner ads, many of which go for $1000 per month to the best of my knowledge, probably bring in an addi....

A dot-English bubble? (views: 2890)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by eigoman

EFL is flying high right now, but with China rising as a superpower and a growing number of countries becoming self-sufficient in English might a site like Dave's with a valuation like you ascribe to it be susceptible to a crash? ....

Re: A dot-English bubble? (views: 2678)

Online (Online) - Fri, 10 Feb 2006
Posted by Guy Courchesne

Perhaps. I can think of few countries on the verge of English self-sufficiency though. Which countries did you have in mind? ....

Re: TEFLguru.com Domain for sale (views: 2362)

Online (Online) - Fri, 03 Feb 2006
Posted by TEFL devotee

Hi, I'd really love to take over your site but I'm too busy working on my own: www.theresoneborneveryminute.com ....

I need help with a School Project (views: 2798)

Online (Online) - Tue, 31 Jan 2006
Kaleta Jacobs

In my Global Cultures class we are assigned to interview some one from Africa so if anyone is from African please answer these questions for me. Cultural Interview 1. Culture and/or country of interviewee: Africa 2. How do people greet each other –(shake hands, bow, embrace, other)? 3. As a visitor to the country, would you exchange gifts at the first meeting? What gifts are considered appropriate? If flowers, what kind? (Some have special mean....

Re: I need help with a School Project (views: 2689)

Online (Online) - Tue, 31 Jan 2006
Posted by Martin McMorrow

Hi, good luck with your project. But, you might want to narrow your focus down a bit. The questionnaire from your class seems to focus on a particular country, whereas Africa is a huge continent made up of more than 50 different countries. Your questionnaire won't work if you focus on Africa. To give just one example, more than a thousand different languages are spoken in Africa. Many are spoken by small communities, but there are more than 50 Af....